Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 22:15:42 AST
From: Tom Simms <tsimms@mailserv.nbnet.nb.ca>
To: crosstalk@info.harpercollins.com
Subject: Re: Original GThomas

On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 16:35:52 -0700, Robert.Schacht@nau.edu writes:
>At 11:15 AM 4/5/98 -0400, William E. Arnal wrote:
>>...I have to say, Jack, with apologies, that I find this

   [... snip ... already seen ...]

>There are two problems with this: 
>First, Scribal concern with verbatim accuracy does not mean that their
>concern *resulted* in verbatim accuracy. Performance would vary as one
>moved farther away from the orbit of such scribes, e.g. to rural areas
>where scribes interested in verbatim accuracy would have a harder time
>making a living.

   Oral performances can be compared rapidly as the rather accurate
   transmission of music learned by ear shows.

>Second, verbatim accuracy assumes a canonical standard against which to
>measure accuracy. From Josephus, we know that even the Temple had to keep
>three sets of the Hebrew scriptures, and when it came time for a reading,
>all three would be compared so that the oral performance would reflect a
>consensus of the available authoritative texts. Not every rural synagogue
>could afford this luxury.

   Hogwash.  This just serves us notice how recently the "final"
   versions were completed as the DSS show was very late.  Actually,
   the DSS show how many versions there were of the Hebrew texts. 
   Synagogues, in spite of the accounts in the Gospels, were scarce
   commodities.  Yet, once the massoretic text was "canonized" it was
   transmitted very faithfully as comparisons with the oldest extant
   10th C. CE texts and the DSS texts show.  You are trying to imagine
   a kind of Never Never land that rests on archaeological and textual
   sand.

   I went through a long string of this topic on several other Lists
   and now think that if there exists a single written text, even
   periodically, oral versions will bear comparison.

>> And by the way, living in a VERY literate culture
>>myself, I know ALL the lyrics to all of Led Zepplin's songs,
>>as well as their locations on the respective albums. Epic
>>memorization is a function of cultural immersion, not
>>orality as such.

>But how accurate is your knowledge? Let's say we do a survey of Zep heads,
>and get them to write down the lyrics to several typical Zep tunes, and
>compare what they wrote. How much "verbatim accuracy" would you expect?

   Good grief, in my C&W, Down East fiddlemusic days, sometimes I
   would pull out a notepad with a few of the tougher chord changes on
   it and before and after that I only took along the "new" music.

>Besides, I'll bet you do not have to undergo the scrutiny of other Zep
>heads by reciting those words in public Zep gatherings, and you will
>probably (let us hope) not instruct any offspring (cats don't count) in Zep
>teachings with much care for verbatim accuracy. But I could be wrong.  ;-)

   My heavens, most classical musicians never use notes.  Haven't you
   ever seen symphony orchestras do encores without scores?

>
>Bob
>**************
>Bob Schacht
>Diocese of OZ


Tom Simms